Does anyone have access to information regarding the value of a GED earned in prison in terms of post-release outcomes? In a study I'm currently conducting that focuses on CE participants who have completed a vocational program and have a verified high school degree or have earned a CE GED, the vocational/verified HS degree group outperforms the vocational/CE GED group (in terms of survival time, time to employment, time employed, and time employed earning more than the poverty threshold). Any thoughts?

Eric Lichtenberger

This is exciting news. In 2006 we did a program evaluation of a brief LifeSkills program, in which we also attempted to determine whether possessing a GED or HS diploma had any impact on recidivism (we only had 68 graduates out of 217 subjects, so we combined Diploma and GED). Our data did not show any statistically significant "protective effect" of Diploma/GED on recidivism, but there was the proverbial "trend" in that direction (i.e., possibly wishful thinking). I haven't had the opportunity to follow up with this topic, though it is of critical importance, so I'm glad to hear that someone is doing some work in this area.

Sara Little, Ph.D.
Program Evaluator
RI Training School



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2008 09:38AM by Eric Lichtenberger.

Thanks Sara----I was wondering if the GED has the same "protective effect" as a high school diploma when measuring post-release outcomes. Perhaps the two degrees are viewed differently by employers?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2008 09:55AM by Eric Lichtenberger.

There was, coincidentally, a GED-i discussion in Tapped In today. I joined the group and at the end of the discussion posted your question, Eric and your response, Sara. I think Kathy may be a resource person to contact for more information. I'm going to paste the entire transcript here so you can see what the Tapped In discussion looked like.
BJ

Room: GED-iUser_Grp

BjB joined the room.

BjB waves hi

KathyLO left the room (signed off).

KathyLO joined the room.

KathyLO: Sorry, I lost connectino for a minute

KathyLO: I was sharing with you the goals for our chat today

BjB: sometimes if you are idle for a long time you lose your connection

KathyLO: and they are reviwing our screening and orientation processes

KathyLO: Now, i woudl like to ask each of you to share your burnign

KathyLO: question

KathyLO: what would you hope to gain for

KathyLO: participating in this chat

KathyLO: Barb- lets' start with you

BarbSa: I would like more ideas for orientation and getting the word out.

KathyLO: okay

KathyLO: Lori

KathyLO: what would you like to gain from our discussion today

KathyLO: Bjb - how about you, what would you like to learn from our chat?

CrystalLH joined the room.

KathyLO: I would like to begin with the screening and criteria for our GED-i students

KathyLO: this is somethign that is critical to discuss

KathyLO: our students need to have a 9th grade reading level and reliable internet access

KathyLO: We have learned that students who are allowed to enter the class with less then these skills often struggle and we don't tend to hang on to them very long

KathyLO: what tools do you use to screen your students?

KathyLO: In the handouts in the left side of the screen

KathyLO: there is a handout from Rock Vally

KathyLO: that is labeled Rock Valley Orientation

JanaL joined the room.

BarbSa: I use the screening similar to those in the Rock Valley handout.

KathyLO: I would like everyone to look at it please

KathyLO: and notice that they have two different types of screening

KathyLO: one is relating to time management for the students

KathyLO: Can everyone see that?

KathyLO: Notice how this handout addresses several different aspects

BethWh left the room (signed off).

KathyLO: Once the student has been screened appropriately by the testing scores and now they have additional resources

KathyLO: as a teacher or program to further address their learner preparedness

BethWh joined the room.

KathyLO: Before I continue, I would like each of you to let me know how you feel about that handout and the additional screening

KathyLO: Barb, what are your thoughts

BarbSa: I always have them do the online orientation before I even bring them in for testing

KathyLO: Yes, the online orientation is a great resource

BarbSa: By doing the online orientation, I know they have the correct reading skills and discipline to tdo the work

KathyLO: Great point Barb, Lori and Jana, do you use the Orientation online

KathyLO: I would like to now draw your attention to the Orientation PDF

KathyLO: that is another resource for completing the GED-i Orientation

KathyLO: completetly at a distance

KathyLO: There are sample emails and instructions for use

KathyLO: in order to move students through an orientation via email

KathyLO: Has anyone had a chance to download that file and check it out?

BarbSa: I like that she sends them tips for success. I usually give those at the face-to-face orientation

KathyLO: Yes, great point Barb

KathyLO: in the Orientation, once the student has been screened into GED-i through the appropriate tools

KathyLO: there are additional resources that can be included in the orientation. One is tips for success

JanaL: I am an instructor in Maryland. We do not administor orientation, but knowing which processes are used is helpful

KathyLO: I see

KathyLO: so Jana, that brings us to a next level. When the student has been oriented to GED-i

KathyLO: what information does the instructor get?

KathyLO: about the student

JanaL: we are given pre-test scores. a student must reach a certain level in order to be registered online

KathyLO: Yes, that is great.

KathyLO: one thing I believe is crucial is that duirng the orientation, the student leaves the process with a learning plan

KathyLO: in the example Orientationexamplepdf.

KathyLO: there is a sample learning contract

KathyLO: that can be the first stet

KathyLO: students know the expectations for participating

KathyLO: online

KathyLO: but - often, they need to know what the first step should be

JanaL: don't the pre-surveys in ged-i serve as general lesson plans?

KathyLO: Yes

KathyLO: absolutely

KathyLO: so if the student walks away from the orientation knowing that they need to log on and complete the pre-survey

KathyLO: they have a learning plan

BarbSa: what is great in GED-i, the learning plan can be put right into the student's info so they can review at anytime

KathyLO: Great point.

KathyLO: but the student needs to know exactly what the first step should be

KathyLO: for example, one first assignment that I would encourage you to have is that the student

KathyLO: email the teacher

KathyLO: and email an introduction

KathyLO: this ensures that the student is taking the steps

KathyLO: to communicate with the teahcer and they are building the rapport

KathyLO: needed to be an online learner

JanaL: One thing I always ask for in an introduction is age...it makes a difference in the way I may communicate

KathyLO: Great point Jana

KathyLO: this helps you get to know the student

KathyLO: the connection to the orientation process is that the student knows that their first assignment is emailing an introduction to the teacher within 24 hours after the orientatin

KathyLO: and then they are to log onto the GED-i site and completing the Pre-Survey

KathyLO: and as Barb pointed out, when the student is registered in GED-i, the teacher

KathyLO: can place the 'plan' in the Instructional plan in the registration process

JanaL: One of the questions a lot of students ask is how long will it take to complete the course? This explains the need for them to complete the pre-surveys as soon as possible, so that can view the number of assigned lessons

KathyLO: Excellent point. We hear that question all the time

KathyLO: typically in orientation

KathyLO: How do you typically answer that question

BarbSa: I usually tell students it depends on them.

BarbSa: I don't have the students do all the pre-surveys right away

JanaL: I was giving weekly tentative lesson plan suggestions to all of my students. It's a lot of work, but for some, it proved to be a useful means of updating student progress, Has anyone else used that method?

KathyLO: We have a teacher in GED-i who sends out weekly emails to her students that are something like

BarbSa: I have tthem start at their strong point and then go from there.

KathyLO: "This week, please do the next two math GED-i lessons and remember to post a response to the discussion board

KathyLO: emails like this

KathyLO: really keep students on task

KathyLO: So, to reacap before we move on:

KathyLO -) (that is me smiling)

KathyLO: we explored screening examples from programs. The screening and orientation resources provided in the handouts on the left side of the screen have field tested

KathyLO: examples

KathyLO: These resources identify screening for reading, computer skills, and time management

KathyLO: then, we have a handout on orientation given via distance

KathyLO: and getting started with a learnign plan for students

KathyLO: the key to retaining students is that they enter the experience knowing what to expect

KathyLO: This connects to student retention

BjB left the room (signed off).


Room: GED-iUser_Grp

BjB joined the room.

KathyLO: Barb - can you share an example of how you enter the learning plan in the GED-i

JanaL: do you feel that the site for ged-i online orientation is sufficient to explain expectations

KathyLO: I think it is

KathyLO: but I also think that having the student email you thier interpretation

LoriAL left the room (signed off).

KathyLO: can serve several purposes

KathyLO: first

KathyLO: you can see any 'red flags'

KathyLO: second, it builds the communication between the student and the teacher

KathyLO: and finally, you see an example of their writing

KathyLO: In the orientationexample

BarbSa: Once the student comes in. I try to register them then and we put the learning plan in. I just cut and paste into the GED-i Intruction Plan section

KathyLO: can you share a sample learnign plan

KathyLO: is it like create 3 lessons per week

KathyLO: or is it more specific

BarbSa: a sample would be do at least 3 lessons per week. E-mail me once a week

KathyLO: yes - great point

KathyLO: you are assigning a method of communication

BarbSa: We also do a learner/teahcer contract that I they take home and I keep in the folder

JanaL: we are being asked that students submit at least 6 lessons per week...do you feel that is too much?

KathyLO: No

KathyLO: i think that is fine

KathyLO: but, you can ask the student

KathyLO: to create

BarbSa: Are your regular GED classes 6 hours pers week

KathyLO: a learning plan like:

KathyLO: I will get online on Monday mornign from 9:00 a.m. and Tuesday evening at 7:00 p.m

KathyLO: this 'forces' the student to think about when they will study

JanaL: my classes vary, but the minimum is usually 6 hours per week

KathyLO: that is a great average

BarbSa: then you 6 lessons per week is right on target

KathyLO: as we wrap up the discussion, I would like you to each share at least one idea that you learned from the hanouts or discussion

KathyLO: Jana, can we start with you ?

KathyLO: is there anything you can implement with your students based on today's conversation

BethWh: thanks for allowing me to "lurk" in this session - i'll be back to visit others. beth

KathyLO: Great Beth

BethWh left the room (signed off).

KathyLO: I hope you found it productive

KathyLO: Bjb- any ideas you can take with you today, or do you have any questions that I can address?

JanaL: I think I will continue the suggested individual lesson plans with students, but I am getting a stronger sense from this discussion how important self-reliance for the student becomes. I think I will ask them to suggest a learning plan for themselves and then discuss it with them...make changes if necessary

KathyLO: Beautiful

KathyLO: Jana - that is a great thing to do

KathyLO: it places the responsiblity on the learner with the support of the teacher

BjB: thanks for asking, Kathy. I'm just lurking to find out information about GED in the correctional setting

KathyLO: Oh - hang on Bjb - I will chat with you after this disucssion about DOC education.

BarbSa: I am going to send Tips for Success at the start not wait until after the orientation

KathyLO: Great idea Barb

BarbSa: thanks, kathy

KathyLO: Jana - If you are interested in sample 'weekly' emails that keep everyone on task,

KathyLO: I will be happy to gather them and send them to you

KathyLO: as examples and resources

KathyLO: it sounds like you are already doing this

JanaL: i have a class beginning in 2 minutes...thank you so much for sharing of ideas...I lokk forward to participating in the future

KathyLO: Great Jana

JanaL left the room (signed off).

KathyLO: Bjb - could you tell me some of your questions about DOC education with GED-i?

KathyLO: we have done this as a pilot in the state of WA

BjB: there was a question posted to the CEA (correctional education association listserv...let me get it for you

BarbSa left the room.

BjB: This isn't going to be a pretty paste, but you'll get the idea:

BjB: Does anyone have access to information regarding the value of a GED earned in prison in terms of post-release outcomes? In a study I'm currently conducting that focuses on CE participants who have completed a vocational program and have a verified high school degree or have earned a CE GED, the vocational/verified HS degree group outperforms the vocational/CE GED group (in terms of survival time, time to employment, time employed, and time employed earning more than the poverty threshold). Any thoughts?

BjB: This is exciting news. In 2006 we did a program evaluation of a brief LifeSkills program, in which we also attempted to determine whether possessing a GED or HS diploma had any impact on recidivism (we only had 68 graduates out of 217 subjects, so we combined Diploma and GED). Our data did not show any statistically significant "protective effect" of Diploma/GED on recidivism, but there was the proverbial "trend" in that direction (i.e., possibly wishful thinking). I haven't had the opportunity to follow up with this topic, though it is of critical importance, so I'm glad to hear that someone is doing some work in this area.

BjB: Sara Little, Ph.D.

BjB: Program Evaluator

BjB: RI Training School

KathyLO: I completely agree that when an offender obtains their GED

KathyLO: inside, they have

KathyLO: a higher rate of success in life when they transition to life outside the system

KathyLO: I firmly believe that that GED edcuation in this population is extremely valuabel

KathyLO: GED-i was implemented as a technoloyg

KathyLO: technology iniatiative

KathyLO: in the WA DOC. We found that students moved through thier adult education curriculum

KathyLO: at a much faster pace in an engaged model of delivery

KathyLO: have you ever seen GED-i

KathyLO: go to://www.ged-i.org

BjB: no

BjB: I worked in a juvenile correctional facility

KathyLO: okay

KathyLO: check out the site

BjB checks

KathyLO: it is a great curriculum

KathyLO: that is used in 5 states

KathyLO: where do you work?

BjB: one of the major obstacles that correctional facilities face is security...and working online is not especially secure

KathyLO: yes

KathyLO: that is a big concern

BjB: I'm retired now, but I worked in a Pennsylvania correctional facility

KathyLO: We are attempting to build pilot programs in DOC evironment

BjB: it would help your program if you could document that a GED earned in a correctional facility was respected and recognized

BjB . o O ( which is probably why the research is being done )

KathyLO: if you can provide any insight

KathyLO: into how I could share our success

KathyLO: I would be more than happy to learn

KathyLO: also - I would also like to learn how to get on the corrections listserv

BjB: ahhh...that I can help you with

BjB: go to www.ceanational.org

BjB: and look for Forums

KathyLO: wonderful

BjB: I think you can read the posts without logging in...

KathyLO: thank you

BjB: I am the chair of the Juvenile Justice Forum

BjB . o O ( and the Prison Arts Forum )

KathyLO: i will be very happy to join these

KathyLO: i need to get ready for my next meeting, so if you would like to contiue with any of this discussion, please feel free to contact me via email at ktracey@cait.org

BjB: thanks, Kathy!

KathyLO: have a wonderful day

BjB: I may send this transcript to the person doing the research

KathyLO: okay

BjB waves bye

KathyLO: that would be wonderful

KathyLO: thank you

KathyLO left the room (signed off).

BjB left the room (signed off).

I heard from Kathy from the GED-i initiative. She wrote:

Hi BJ,
I am sending you a link to an article written in the August 05 edition of Focus on Basics. [www.ncsall.net] The article, Re-Entry and Corrections Education.

As this edition is all about Corrections Education, there are a few other articles that can be beneficial. there is another one- What are the Economic Effects of Earning A GED in Prison. I think both articles will give you some insight to your question and provide a resources for additional follow up.

I hope these help and I will be keeping my eyes open for additional resources.

Regards,
Kathy
ktracey@cait.org

Believe it or not, Eric, we are about to start looking at this. We have the release and employment data for the last 3 years for our vocational effectiveness study and we were just going to redirect it to hit our GED tables. I don't exactly know how long it will be before we get to it though. How soon are you needing the info?
Don

Thanks Don....There is no immediate rush--perhaps we could share a presentation slot at an upcoming CEA conference. This idea of "dual-completion" is a pretty hot topic. It would be interesting to see if we come up with similar results. Let me describe my study in a little more detail... I'm using members of the FY2003 release cohort who completed their respective correctional education program(s) during the current sentence. I'm working with three years of data as well (release quarter +12 additional quarters) for recidivism (survival time in days), number of quarters until employment, number of quarters consecutively employed, and number of quarters consecutively employed with earnings over the poverty threshold ($2,450). I removed anyone from the study who indicated they had more than a 12th grade education or had ever participated in a college level course. In the end I had four groups: 1) CTE only (everyone had less than a 12th grade education), 2) GED only, 3) GED/CTE combination & 4) Verified HS degree/CTE combination. I originally has a 5th group (verified HS degree only), but decided to remove them because of potential motivation issues. In other words, they were the only group lacking exposure to a correctional education program.Also, I'm using Cox regression to control for age at release, time served, offense type (violent, non-violent, drug), custody level at release (min, med, max), number of major and minor infractions, race, gender, and marital status. ----Eric

Hi Eric-
It looks like we will doing some things relatively consistent with what you have laid out. I don't see us going so specific as to filtering via a Cox regression. I do like your idea of filtering based on attitudinal inherency factors though. We're just not sophistacted enough in our research methodology to pull it off. I suspect our product will look very much like the vocational parameters we have used in the past; time to initial employemnt, employment history from 1st quarter of employment through the subsequent four quarters, wages, etc. We want the framework to be consistent in both of our studies. We will also include college programming in some respect, although it looks like it will be broken out as separate sub-groups in similar fashion. Re-incarceration will have some visibility, although that issue seems to be a sticking point right now; we can't decide to what degree we want to view this. It will probably be something as simple as re-incarceration within a two-year period.
We will also probably look at the same combinations as you, although I am not sure about the verified high school diploma/CTE group. If we decide to look at this sub-group it will most likely be in combination with High School diploma and GED grouped together.
We already have all the employment and release data all matched for the last 3 years as individual cohorts, so we will just have to re-define some queries. We just can't seem to find the time. If what we have seen in some preliminary examination holds true, you are right-those with more programming seem to survive and thrive direcectly proportionate to the number of programs completed. I would think that the methodological similarities would provide relatively similar results, but who knows?
One of the areas we will really try to focus on is the degree to which those who have obtained only a GED while incarcerated seem to do post-release. We have not really looked at that too much, and it is an issue we are going to have to validate as the next legislative session approaches I think.
Have a great holiday!

Another thing I've been trying to wrap my head around is looking at correctional education/employment/and reduced recidivism at the same time (in the same model). For instance, completing a CTE or GED program increases the likelihood of obtaining employment the first quarter out by a factor of........, which decreases the likelihood of recidivating during that quarter by a factor of........... My current models separately examine correctional education's relationship to employment and then correctional education's relationship to survival (reduced recidivism) and I can't really test the prevailing theory that correctional education increases employment opportunities which decreases the likelihood of recidivism. Maybe I need to take it one quarter at a time. Any thoughts? Eric

mmm...nothing like the whole waterfront, is there? I would not have the slightest idea how to approach this, given the prevailing and numerous variables. My initial thought is that on the surface this scenario appears as to be a type of syllogism, so that might be a way to get at it. Interesting thought, though. I don't know if that degree of specificity would even be attainable. The whole survival time issue has always been one that makes me pretty jumpy; I have just never had a great deal of faith in it. The first quarter of release as it relates to employment also proved to be problematic in our effectiveness studies. We ended up looking at the first quarter of employment forward when viewing it from a recidivism perspective. All that being said, I am more than certain a better researcher (such as you) could definitely do some things to factor whatever is needed; we just couldn't ever get past that hurdle.

On another note, we are providing some data for a guy who is doing his dissertatioin on the effects of our Cognitive Intervention program and its relationship to recidivism. I mentioned to him that you do a great deal of work regarding offender outcomes. He asked if you would be interesting in corresponding and/or collaborating on some things in the future. I told him I would certainly present the idea to you. If you are interested, I will give him the contact info. His present study is dealing with the FY 05 cohort.

Feel free to provide that graduate student my contact information. I look forward to hearing from him.

So far using Cox regression, I've found a significant difference between the GED only group and two dual-completion groups--CTE/GED & CTE/Verified HS--in terms of number of quarters to employment and the number of quarters consecutively employed with earnings above the poverty threshold ($2450). However, I failed to find a significant difference between those groups in terms of the number of quarters consecutively employed (any earnings) or survival.

I'll let you know if I find a panoramic way to look at the whole waterfront. In the end I might have to tape together a couple of snap-shots (syllogism) and call it a day.
Eric

Eric Happy New Year!
I am not thinking you can separate this variable as earnings differential. Compared to what? Being re-incarcerated? I think you can only compare the the earnings of anyone who has a GED compared to anyone who does not in society to get a valid number?
Murray Ellison
PC Chairman

Eric
Have you had any findings on this subject?
Murray Ellison
PC Chair